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September 15, 2006

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Major Carrales

This is something I would do, as the thread says, with in reason.

If, for example, our regular meeting night meet at a USAF facility...spend some five hours there...two for CAP and one for USAF.

I have heard of, but never directly scene, CAP helping USAF recruiters. What it entails, I have limited info on...but I think that is once place where CAP can help the USAF and USAFA where it is not readily available.

There will have to be training to go with it...and clear understanding of the job at hand.

Deployments for two weeks are possible in the summer, unless CAP makes arrangments for time off of work.

Major Carrales

Opps... I meant "two for CAP, three for USAF."

I would use my skills as a teacher/trainer for all they are worth. Also, my musical knowledge and journalism skills.

Landis

And your math skills as well? ;)

I'd be willing to help out with duties on base as long as I got some training as well (probably a given).

DrDave

The CAP Chaplain Service has been the leading edge of such a "back" deployment. As I understand it, qualified CAP chaplains can "backfill" needed slots at AF bases to replace active duty chaplains that have been deployed.

A similar working situation has been an ongoing project of the NHQ Health Services Program, where appropriately trained and qualified CAP medical personnel (i.e. nurses, EMT's, physicians, etc.) could similarily "backfill" open health service slots. I know the former Director of Health Services, Col. Greenstone, met with the USAF Surgeon General to discuss such options. Unfortunately, I don't know what the current status is of this proposal.

DNall

I don't know any specifics, but I hear there has been some significant progress on the Health Service Officer front & that we may be hearing more in the coming months.

Certainly Chaplains, and now medical, should be used as an example. You'll check out the CAPortal thread & see it discusses duty down to answering phones & making copies; ot also discusses use of attorneys for legal aid, and accountants in a similiar role. There's some good stuff there.

The conversation also establishes some training would be necessary, but in taking this program to a major league level we also admit that CAP would have to get its crap together & train officers that can function alongside AF officers (ie unpaid professionals vs volunteers). You don't think of your volunteer fire dept as a bunch of bums off the street that play at putting out fires but it'd take ten of them under the direction of a real firefighter to do anything but make a mess. NO, never, you'd get knocked out for starters thinking something like that. They're volunteers with lives jobs & families, but they're also just about as well trained as a paid firefighter & just as capable. CAP should be thinking that way when it comes to the grade on your collar & in comparison to SaR/DR first responders. IF CAP chooses to reshape our personnel to that perspective then augmentation of the AF will become a big time program & the relationship will reflect it.

DNall

I don't know any specifics, but I hear there has been some significant progress on the Health Service Officer front & that we may be hearing more in the coming months.

Certainly Chaplains, and now medical, should be used as an example. You'll check out the CAPortal thread & see it discusses duty down to answering phones & making copies; ot also discusses use of attorneys for legal aid, and accountants in a similiar role. There's some good stuff there.

The conversation also establishes some training would be necessary, but in taking this program to a major league level we also admit that CAP would have to get its crap together & train officers that can function alongside AF officers (ie unpaid professionals vs volunteers). You don't think of your volunteer fire dept as a bunch of bums off the street that play at putting out fires but it'd take ten of them under the direction of a real firefighter to do anything but make a mess. NO, never, you'd get knocked out for starters thinking something like that. They're volunteers with lives jobs & families, but they're also just about as well trained as a paid firefighter & just as capable. CAP should be thinking that way when it comes to the grade on your collar & in comparison to SaR/DR first responders. IF CAP chooses to reshape our personnel to that perspective then augmentation of the AF will become a big time program & the relationship will reflect it.

DR T

Willing to provide my skills and expertise (Health Services Program, Intel., and International Foreign Affairs) as Instructor/Trainer for all qualified USAF officer and staff, with HIGH hope that some worth training program provided back to me/us.

Respectfully
DR T
(DOC)

JohnKachenmeister

Let's see:

1. Public Affairs help.
2. Medical help.
3. Security and Force Protection (non-enforcement type duties; desk and vehicle registration).
4. Pilots could help in operations with weather briefings.
5. Administrative help.
6. Help processing deployments overseas.

The key to this program is training and coordination, and assigning people to jobs that are not inconsistent with officer rank. You don't want to see a lieutenant colonel policing up cigarette butts.

Dan

The key to this program is training and coordination, and assigning people to jobs that are not inconsistent with officer rank. You don't want to see a lieutenant colonel policing up cigarette butts.

Ah, here we come to another "full stop event."

With the execption of "professional commissions" (i.e. doctors, lawyers, chaplains), there are not going to be augmentee jobs for "officers."

AUX Chaplains are able to cross the line because they are certified the same way USAF Chaplains are. Likewise, doctors and lawyers have similar certifying orgs (medical boards and state/federal bars). A state certified lawyer could still write wills and PoA's for deploying Airmen. A board certified surgeon can work in a military hospital.

However, your average CAP "officer" has none of the training or authority to backfill a Line Officer.

I would advocate a CGAUX solution - no grade insignia. We either wear pin-on grade over sewn-on blue squares or have blue plastic squares behind the pin-on grade. That way we can wear "Auxilirist pins" (maybe tri-props or something) on the BDU's while we're doing augmentee work.

Frankly, I think I'd speak for a lot of NCO's/SNCO's (if they knew about CAP, that is) who response to "here's CAP Lt Col Bagadonuts - he's a bus driver normally but this week he's your boss" would be "WEAPONS FREE! FIGHT'S ON!"

JohnKachenmeister

Dan:

I disagree. This is not a war-stopper.

I did NOT say that CAP officers would backfill for USAF officers. That can't happen, since CAP officers have no command authority over AF personnel.

I said that the duties assigned could not be inconsistent with officer rank. They could not be put to work on manual labor, but could serve as:

Public Affairs staff, journalists, briefers, tour guides and media escorts.

Operations briefers.

Office duties in the Security Forces.

Assist in pass and ID issuance.

Assist in medical care, if certified by the state (EMT, nurse, doctor, etc.)

Assist administratively in processing deploying troops, in a variety of duties, including having our lawyers prepare wills.

2LT Michael T Donigain

When will this working side by side with regular Air Force come to reality? I can not wait to start.

DNall

The stipulation was that there would be significant increase in quality training of CAP personnel to better coincide with the qualifications of officers at similiar grade. It's not that different in teh REserves when an officer very well could be a bus driver in the real world & a SNCO the President of the company that bus driver works for. I've seen a very similiar situation in fact & tho it was a little wierd the two guys had no issue with it & knew a dif part of the brain turned on when the unifrom got pulled on.

Anyway, with proper training to meet AF standards you can utilize CAP personnel in a great many staff & training duties you can make them qualified for, and the CAP uniform is quite distinctive already thank you. Of course the fist line in this is utilizing medical in the way we do chaplains, and then in rolling a few other professions in behind. Beyond that will take time & much change in CAP.

eman

Dan:
just wanted to give my two cents worth, we all maybe very surprised to find out, that many us at CAP are either Mil type, Officer, SNCO or NCO, we hold advance degrees and believe or not or at least the folks I fly with are all Commercial/ATP with 7,000 plus hours of flying time, The US Air Force will be getting a bargain.

DNall

See that's pretty interesting. We were talking about an OTS program for CAP a while back with entry standards of an associates & either two-years work experience or a mission skill (pilot, EMT, hamm, etc), and someone got in a long debate with me about how it was impossible, that he & two other people in his whole group were the only ones that'd ever been to college & everyone else would quit even if we grandfathered it & they weren't bumped to NCO or warrant grades. But, yeah I was shocked. I've been with units in big cities & mildly small towns, & I've always seen either several prior-service or a lot of fairly well educated folks. Just the time & money involved seems to turn away most of the rest.

Blackwing

The real problem is this: most CAP members can't even be trusted to follow CAP's rules, so what makes any of you think we (the collective we) can be trusted to follow USAF's?

The short answer: we can't. As DoD begins to grant real live government security clearances to select CAP'ers, some folks are going to be in for a very rude awakening when they find themselves faced with the prospect of jail time and/or hefty fines for failing to follow the rules pertaining to classified information.

Midway Six

CAP Officers can be trusted just as much as regular officers if the same level of screening is applied.

The security check done for a CAP Officer is the same as the security check done for a regular Officer for the clearance. The FBI doesn't care what color your nametapes on.

Every large organization will have it's bad apples.. the USAF is no different.

Most of the augmentation jobs I've heard people talk about won't require any more paperwork / oversight than what many CAP Officers already have.

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