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October 26, 2006



Wow, I couldn't agree more - well let me clarify, I agree with 95% of that, the other 5% didn't go far enough!!

CORPORATE-STYLE uniform means a combination that looks like standard civilian corporate dress, NOT a military uniform. Take that into account when considering things like the TPU.

AF-STYLE uniform means THE AF uniform with minor changes to make it clear this is not an AF officer capable of giving legal orders. The degree to which the AF feels that needs to be emphasized is seen by everyone as the measuring stick by which they display their mutual-respect & appreciation of our services, capabilities, & quality of our personnel. I'd like that uniform to get closer to the AF-way w/ metal grade & CAP directly on the epaulets of outerwear, and embroidered on blue slides - so pretty much exactly what was authorized in the 80s, before we pissed them off & got maroon for a while. However, considering that measuring stick principle I explained, and how far I think CAP needs to go toward improvement of those factors, I think we're fine with gray right now & need to spend our effort getting our act together & earning a more peer-like perception before we go demanding the trophy that comes with it.

There's a thread over on CAPortal that describes an even better plan for the ID, one good enough I'd scrap where we are right now & start over.

Overall, I'm disgusted by CAP not getting up under the AF's wing & behaving ourselves. It's stupid that we make a mockery of our grade & training programs. There's just so much wrong with CAP I often feel we'd be better off asking the AF to come in & supervise a restructuring to a real auxiliary in their image & turn the reigns back over in five years when we have it right. Congress takes some interest when they aren't consumed with important matters. I'm pretty confident some letters will go out next year to ask some hard questions, and I want to see the answers when they come back.


[quote]Abandon the "TPU" - We want a corporate style uniform that is distinctive from the Air Force, then let's see what the airlines are wearing and go that route. (Gen. McPeak did it, but it makes a lot more sense for us!)[/quote]

I don't wear the corporates...but, I don't really see how the "TPU" is all that hosed up. It is silly that we have about 500 uniform combinations...but the TPU is not all that bad.

[quote]Ditch the CrAPtastic MAJCOM Wannabe - The graphic on the ID should match the patch on my uniform. (The first person to tell me that we should just change the MAJCOM on the flight suit gets pointed at, and laughed at!)[/quote]

Start laughing....people know us better as CAP than as the "Official USAF Auxiliary". It is not going to make one iota of difference to the Air Force. It will make a difference to all the other agencies that we can help.

[quote]Have the Air Force handle our credentialing - We should get CAC cards like everyone else. (Which includes civilian contractors, etc.) They have the infrastructure, and would help our volunteer force be better integrated with the active and reserve components[/quote]

does the Air Force even want to handle our credentials? And as for handling the co-worker just spend 4 hours waiting to get his CAC remade. I don't think many MPFs out there really want to deal with 2-3 THOUSAND requests for ID Cards.


Well said M-6.

Give a couple days for the melon-heads and depends crowd to post and then we can have a group laugh and finger-pointing session.


Midway 6:

You are right, but you are preaching to the choir.

While I understand TP's motivation in establishing the TPU, which is to get all of us on the same team in the same jersey as far as possible, I wish he had followed up more and placed our organization more under the AF than we presently are.

There's a lot we can do, and the silly MAJCOM patch abortion is symptomatic of what's wrong.

There is nothing wrong with being a special volunteer element of the Air Force, with our own insignia and traditions, but at the end of the day, still an element of the Air Force.

When I get to be National Commander, I will burn all corporate types in Effigy.

(Effigy, Alabama, that is. Effigy is a small town outside of Birmingham with a very slow-to-respond volunteer fire department.)


This is rediculous. CAP has been way over-politicized by wanna-be politics. Our current national commander seems to have a hatred of our status as the auxiliary, and he is [heck]bent on making sure that changes.

And he thinks nobody is noticing. He seems to be making stupid changes that [tick] off big brother Air Force, IMHO, specifically to get them angry at us. If he doesn't stop, he will get just what he wants: our seperation.

You know, when I turn SM here in 3 or 4 years, I really don't want to have to suffer through another berry-board depression.

Major Carrales

All this ridiculous talk about uniforms and cards will, in my opinion, result in us having neither.

Right now the ID cards and, most especially, the uniform issue represent the single most dividing element in CAP.

We had better pull it together or it may be the end of us.

Citizen Airman

Gee, bud... Sorry but I'm not gonna be the one to kiss your butt with platitudes and percentages. What the heck is the big deal, anyway?

Should the patch and card match? Yes, so change the patch, cuz I guarantee they're not changing the card aside from fixing the colors. As for Air Force Auxiliary, do keep in mind it says that in big 'ol letters right across the top of the card.

Bastardization??? We are Civil Air Patrol by name. We also happen to be the Air Force Auxiliary (by designation, not by name) so there is no good reason why we shouldn't have Civil Air Patrol in the emblem.

As for the TPU, I personally will refer to the uniform as such no further. It is a Distinctive CAP Service Dress and I will treat it as such even if I'm the only one who does so whether I chose to wear it or not.
What anybody thinks of the uniform or how it came to be will always be subjective, so if you don't like it and are able to wear the AF style uniform, so be it, but press on, please.

Let's give the people who do wear it the respect they deserve by not making light of the uniform they're wearing. After all they're still performing the same missions as we are.

For once I'd like to see us all stand behind what we are instead of complaining about what we are not!

A Bastardized Melon-headed-yet-non-depends-wearing Citizen Airman.

...Sheesh indeed!

Midway Six


This is one of those we-can-agree-to-disagree moments.

See where they replaced "CAP" on the MAJCOM with "U.S." on the new graphic? Why do we wear "U.S." on our uniform at all?

It's becuase if we're wearing an Air Force uniform, it's a Geneava Convention requirement. If we're just a corporate entity , why bother?

The "Distinctive CAP Service Dress" smells bad to me because it feels like we're talking out of both sides of our mouths.

Thumbing our noses at Big Brother Blue and saying, "Neener-neener-neener!" is NOT the way to make friends and influence people.

The Air Force guys I talk to refer to consider the CAP uniform a AIR FORCE UNIFORM, first and foremost. When I asked an AF C/MSgt what she thought of the new uniform, the best she could say about it was, "Well... It's blue."

I'm a beliver that it is our affiliation with the United States Air Force that is our number one organizational asset in creating the opportunity to serve our communities, states, and nation.


Gosh, Six, you're fired up! Before a post like that, you should send out a warning like the FAC in Apocalypse Now before the airstrike: "Better get your people back, its gonna be a big one.." Me thinks you just got taken off a whole bunch of people's Christmas card lists.

But you speak the truth both in this post and the latest one above it, brother: Since the "corporatization" of CAP in 1994 (and even before that, really, into the early 1990s), we've played this "yes we are, no we aren't" thing with our status as the AF Auxiliary. Whether our name is Civil Air Patrol or not, we're still by Public Law the official auxiliary of the USAF.

It is amazing to me that once the lawyers got involved (the determination that it was possibly not legal to have an Active Duty USAF officer as the Executive Director of an obstensibly "civilian" organization), things went sour quickly for us. And since 1994, its seems that every time there is an opportunity for the legal beagles to get their noses into the situation, we wind up with a bigger wedge between us and the AF. (remember the glider flap? And what was the latest one about where the JAG at Maxwell decided that we shouldn't have been able to do something? Its 6:30am, so my first cup of coffee hasn't kicked in yet, but I recall a "JAG-involvement" situation in the last 12-18 months that had to be resolved, and it initially wasn't favorable to us..)

Anybody remember the whole thing with our FAA exemption? That would never have happened if Big Brother Blue was there to beat down the FAA's door for us. Instead, we had to operate under that inane set of rules for several years. How do we think that helped out our pilot population?

We'll scream "But we're part of the AF" when it suits us. Until the AF says "OK, we want you to do this." and we scream "But we're a civilian corporation!" Bah, its BS posturing.

No offense to Spaceman up there above, but when you said you turn senior in 3-4 years, I laughed out loud. You ain't seen the half of it, bud. I've been a member for more than 25 years now, I've seen a lot of ups and a lot of downs. Overall, I'd say we're not in too bad of shape, but man, we need to get some direction and leadership that has us all marching in step. Soon.


I know how you feel M-6. Everytime I think the family is inviting me (the red headed step child)in for dinner, I find out it's only to clean the table.

I think the reason the topic of ID cards and uniforms creates so much discussion is it represents the two sides of the isle. Kind of like Republicans and Deomocrats. The one side wants a closer relationship with the military side (AF)and the corporate side would like to get away from the military, sometimes as far away as possible.

This manifests itself in uniforms & ID cards. I've seen those who could wear the AF uniform avoid it all costs. They want to distance themselves from the military. They love the blue flight suit, corporate uniform styles ( white shirts,grey slacks, new service dress/airline pilot coat, etc). Some have voiced their displeasure about CAP having any involvement with the AF. They grudingly accept the relationship because that's where the money comes from.

The AF Aux side would like a more orderly , military fashion to the organization. They want to identify with the AF. Some, like me, did not get to serve and now are past the age to join or other issues (medical, etc) (would if I could). It is our opportunity to serve our country. I exceed the ht/wt/grooming standards and proudly wear the AF uniform. I have no interest in the corporate uniform.

I do respect hose who are here to serve but for whatever reason cannot wear the AF uniform and must wear the corporate style. Not all things are under our control.

CAP was founded to serve the country. It wasn't founded as a flying club, fraternity/sororiety, benevolent charity, dance club or anything else. The government and military saw the great job CAP was doing and brought us into the family as the auxiliary.

It's in this vein that M-6 and I get frustrated. We are here to serve. We want to be that auxiliary that the military can county on to assist in those non-combat missions. We desire a closer relationship with our parent (AF) and the outward manifistation of that are uniforms and ID cards.

For CA...I don't think the comments about the TPU/corporate uniform are making light of those who wear it...but on the manner it was brough about, the still unknown reason why it was necessary(is it to bring us closer or distance ourselves - Gen Pineda has never said which it is).

We have all seen the dramatic shift in the past year away from AF Aux to CAP. Is the AF pushing us away? Have we pooped in the AF punchbowl and that is why? Are we choosing to step away from the AF due to power/control? Are we moving away because of a disdain for the military? Our leadership has failed to tell us what and why. So the speculation continues and hence the blog and portal.


I think you can probably see a common thread here of DEMAND for leadership & defined direction (otherwise known as a detailed & comprehensive trategic vision statement). We all want strong leadership to emerge, take control, & say in plain & loud terms that we're either Auxiliary-izing up unde rthe AF's wing & getting in lock step, & reaching out to grab opportunities to actually serve our country, OR that we're going to continue down the CAP Inc path cause morons are obsessed with their own sense of importance & personal power. I want to know, cause I spend a lot of dedicvated time, effort, & money on this messed up organization dreaming of what it could be if we get our crap together & get in line, and if I'm just getting hosed by truck drivers in Col's epaulets then I got better things to do with my time. For the love of God, will CAP, AF, or Congress please step up & bring a bat to set things right. I'm perfectly fine with dropping half our membership when we pick sides & rebuilding from there. Better to do that & get where we need to go than to keep up the split-personality BS & slowly suck the life out of everyone we touch.


No offense to Spaceman up there above, but when you said you turn senior in 3-4 years, I laughed out loud.

No offense taken.


From what I've seen in my incredibly lengthy time in CAP (almost 2 whole years!), the "leadership" doesn't want to be affiliated with the AF at all. I don't know if TP ever served in the military, but the attitude I perceive from on high is that he'd just as soon be no one's auxiliary. It's almost as if he doesn't like the AF for some reason, and just revels in rubbing their nose into some stinking pile of stuff. From 24 years in the military, I know all too well that that is not a good plan!

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